[rocky] Professionalism killed the Rocky star

[jrising]

There was a fantastic discussion at the Rocky party about the state of the cast. The vocal consensus was this:

There's an undercurrent of over-professionalism at the show. In small but definite ways, the drive for professionalism stifles some of the fun of the show and makes working at it a chore. Because the show isn't as much fun, it isn't as good, and the audience has noticed. Both directors, theater 3, and Acid's absence were blamed for these problems.

It's so tough to disentangle real harmful effects from nostalgia. So, tell me: do you agree? Have we gained the world and lost our soul (or raised the bar and broken our backs)? The drive for screen accuracy can push us to do better, but if it drives out jokes and connecting with the audience-- if our performance just duplicates the film-- do we want it? The cast members used to work up the audience waiting outside before the show. Does anyone do that now? We have such a great group, and we can fix these problems, but maybe not without big changes.

Feel free to post anonymously or email me separately.

Comments

[suitboyskin.livejournal.com]

You raise an interesting set of questions and while, I'll bite and put in my 2 cents worth I also can't speak for anybody but myself.

While I'll be the first to say that I've always found FBC to be a little on the anal side when it comes to screen accuracy I don't think that aspect of the cast's culture is the root cause for any of the "vibe" problems that people are noticing. Now I'm not complaining about the screen accuracy compulsion. It's a perfectly valid way of doing Rocky and has been a part of the FBC culture for quite some time. I just learned Rocky in different environments that weren't as married to the notion of screen accuracy as FBC is. Not saying that one way's better than the other, just different. I raise the point simply because I've known some people to be rubbed the wrong way by the sort of "overprofessionalism" that you describe in your post, however, I don't think that it figures into the "feel" of the show right now simply because that aspect of FBC culture has existed long before theatre 3, our current cast/crews, etc.

I think one of the things that's so frustrating about people's problems with the show right now is that most of them are problems of that sort of vague, nebulous ultimately personal nature which are by their very definition, hard to put one's finger on. It's not really a question of moving back to theatre 4 and watching things go back to the way they were or the like. One of the problems with big, evolving groups like FBC is that there is a turnover rate, people do come and go and sometimes groups of people click and sometime they don't.

For my own part I had one major grievance with the show which, to peoples' credit, has been addressed, but the rest of my issues with the show remain hard to identify or articulate. This is why my time with FBC grows short but I try very hard to not bitch excessively much about the show at large because, much like with your discussion, I really can't say just what it is about the show that's not working for me. I'm curious to hear that others are experiencing a similar sense of ennui about the show though. I'd be interested to see what results, if any this post gets.

(by-the-by, I apologize wholeheartedly for any glaring spelling, grammatical, words-actually-making-sense-in-that-order, sorts of errors that may have occurred in this response. I write this at 6:45 AM after a particularly gruelling overnight shift at work and I'm simply too lazy/exhausted to proofread)

[g-w-s.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I'm just an anal type (!), but FBC's screen accuracy is impressive. I always pay attention to it and marvel.

Frank's exaggerated facial expressions and swagger (Bethany in particular), Crim that really cracks me up, those times that Magenta looks to be getting a bit friskier than normal, absolutely crazy Rocky (Acid was the first I saw) - those characters in particular make it fun for me. Some nights are better than others - when I'm already very tired and I have a hard time staying awake, I know it's not as good as it can be, because there are times when I have been even MORE tired, but my ear-to-ear grins have kept me focused. Little changes, like sawing at Dr Scott's head during the dinner scene - and watching the actors play with it - consistently make it more entertaining. I'm a fan of parody - and if ever there was a film to be mocked..

Themes are fun. Gender benders, strap on some unexpected dildos, wear hero costumes, whatever. Inside jokes, not as much. April 1st is still my favorite show. Audience participation is what MAKES this show - and much of the audience would be thrilled to help out in some way. Pull an audience member in to play Eddie for the dinner scene, and make the dining a bit more.. interactive? (Could be a little theatre des vampires..)

If there are actors that are getting bored with their parts, I honestly think they should yield to someone who isn't. If most people are bored, then the directors should step in and tweak the show into a new direction. I'm not exposed to a lot of the personalities or inner communication of the cast and crew, but the people I've observed certainly seem to have a lot more fun when they are being silly. You can be silly and professional at the same time - it's all part of your roles as entertainers.

What isn't the problem? I don't think that which theater you are in should matter - I bet you guys could do a show in the middle of the woods and still make it look good. Being accurate in terms of blocking, gestures, and lip-syncing does not detract from the experience (and for those in my camp, it is a good thing). Being well organized as a cast and crew, recognizing that you have well-defined roles as entertainers (for the benefit of the participants as well as the audience), and making the show flow smoothly require a degree of professionalism - those will NOT kill rocky, but make it a better show for all involved. Being a good entertainer means having fun AND being professional about it. Not everyone can do it.

[catullus-5.livejournal.com]

First of all, some people have more issues with the show than others, and if the guy you get feedback from is someone who's left the show, you're much more likely to hear the bad side of things than the good. So take the feedback with a grain of salt.

Screen accuracy is in no way incompatible with having a good time and giving the audience a good time. For instance, no one tells Frank that he/she can't spray a water bottle over the curtain because that's not what's on the screen. No one tells Twinkie he can't act out a Dr. Strangelove reference because the real Dr. Scott doesn't do so. That kind of tomfoolery is great, and the audience loves it, and I've never gotten the impression it was frowned upon, as long as the movie doesn't become one endless string of gags. Screen accuracy is what you do the REST of the time. When you're not taking liberties, you ought to know all your stuff, like which hand to hold your prop in. Screen accuracy is a good thing. For the audience, it's the difference between paying money for a live Rocky cast, and paying money to see a bunch of punks goofing off. We don't have to be Nazis about it, but we should have high standards.

I think a performer's satisfaction and an audience's satisfaction contribute to each other. Yes, the audience has more fun when we have more fun, but it works the other way too. Are our crowds smaller than they should be? To what extent is that the luck of the draw, and to what extent is there something we could be doing about it? The claim that audience members are staying away chiefly because of low cast morale being evident on stage is, IMHO, a tad overblown. Last week, for instance, there was no shortage of performers and techies who (it appeared to me) were thrilled as always to be there. Not all, but most. Besides, it's not as simple as "the audience has sucked ever since X left the show" or "since Y took over" or "since Z didn't get cast" or "since Q started doing preshows." Frankly, giving back the ability to dance the Time Warp in an aisle, as the good Lord intended, would probably have a much stronger effect on the audience.

Not that there aren't a few beloved cast members who I wish would return. And I'm sure I'm not alone on this one. There are indeed ways in which morale could be higher, and that's one of them. For another example, costume techies (and many actors) miss having the basement. But concrete, identifiable solutions are few. I think those issues we may have are too vague and complicated to fix with a checklist of changes. But I don't think they're as severe as was claimed at the party, either.

[jrising.livejournal.com]

I don't think screen accuracy alone is the culprit. FBC has held itself to a high standard there, and it really does have impressive results. But I think there can be real trade-offs between screen accuracy and putting on a fun show, both for ourselves and for the audience.

Someone said that the standard used to be that if you weren't doing a joke or playing with the audience then you should be screen accurate. But now people are so worried about getting yelled at that they never feel like they always have to stick to the screen.

FBC is always evolving, and we can't get stuck in some idea of how things used to be, because it was only that thing to those people. The person who started the discussion was an alum who's naturally going to feel less of the good vibe in the show.

At the same time, it's even more of a problem *because* of the turnover. An undercurrent that's making the vibe worse is taken as the status quo by new members who don't know better. I fully believe in our cast's ability to get past these problems, but only if we recognize them.

[jrising.livejournal.com]

Lots of people do. I'm sure he doesn't mean to have that effect... but if it is him, then we just need a new director.

[d-day.livejournal.com]

Well put.

[d-day.livejournal.com]

I have way too much to say on this and my thoughts are to disorganized to possibly post them here. It will have to wait till this weekend.

[d-day.livejournal.com]

I think holding Gary up as a screen accuracy nazi is seriously misinformed.

[d-day.livejournal.com]

Well, then I guess it's good I wasn't replying to you specifically.

[d-day.livejournal.com]

I wasn't putting words into your mouth, and the reason I didn't reply to your original comment is because I WASN'T REPLYING TO YOUR ORIGINAL COMMENT. I was replying to a trend I saw in all the comments and since Jimmy's response to you seemed like the best place to put it... that's where it went.

Sorry you misunderstood me. I hope this helps clear things up :)

[d-day.livejournal.com]

Jimmy mentioned Directors in his original post and since Gary gives notes more often than I do, I applied the screen accuracy comments to him.

I think the Nazi part was stuck in my brain from Jonathan's post.

That all.

[suitboyskin.livejournal.com]

I think 20+ years of existence is testiment to the fact that FBC will, in all likelihood survive this current funk that we're in. Honestly it's done me a world of good just to hear that I'm not alone in having a lack of empathy (for the complete and utter lack of a better word)with the show.

As for the screen accuracy comment I wasn't implying that it was your only point. It was merely the one that my brain gravitated to in the wee hours.

[suitboyskin.livejournal.com]

Nobody is saying that screen accuracy is a bad thing or that our standards shouldn't be high. When screen accuracy get's taken to, as you say, that nazi-esque extreme that devotion to it becomes problematic. Personally I've always had a notion that there is A-list and B-list screen accuracy. I try to use this whenever I'm teaching someone a role. Knowing every last movement is not the same thing as being good as or really being able to sell your character.

A-List screen accuracy, to my way of thinking, is the big stuff. Knowing when your character reaches out to shake hands, when to start singing, your character's facial expressions etc. The stuff that if you don't know you really don't know the part.

B-List is the little tiny detail stuff that pretty much nobody but other Rocky-ites are going to notice. I may be biased in this regard as I'm one of the most dyslexic actors I've ever met but nobody can accuse me of not "knowing" my parts. Yes, learn which way Eddie spins when he starts to sing but not to the exclusion of knowing what makes Eddie tick. Knowing that he spins and when is more important to overall performance than which way he spins.

Maybe if we started teaching people their roles with this or a similar concept in mind then people would a.) feel less anxious about the true minutae, b.) will relax a bit and feel good about what they do know as opposed to sitting up nights worrying about whether Frank dresses to the left or the right and c.) wouldn't necessarily see "SCREEN ACCURACY" as such a daunting phrase.

[jrising.livejournal.com]

I don't think that he wants to be a screen accuracy nazi, or that he's anti-jokes, or that he's the sole source of anything off at FBC. But I do think the he has effects he doesn't realize. Just because he's always watching and judging, people start to sensor themselves, even more than he would.

A props person said that before if he messed up, he had to face his crew head; now he has to worry about being yelled at by the director. I think holding ourselves to a high standard is great, but I think our highest priority should be to have fun, and the high standards help make the game worth playing.

[kjcitygirl.livejournal.com]

ok ... here's my 2 cents worth ...

i think everyone has been feeling a tightening on playing around, but i'm not sure if it's a horrendous thing. i think screen accuracy is a very important trait to have - because if you don't know what's going on and you're fucking around all the time, then your performance sucks. knowing your part inside and out is what allows one to have great joking moments on stage because you know where the timing should be, and you know how to maneuver your way in and out of the horsing around.

i think that during auditions, everyone should try to be as accurate as possible so as not to mess up the other actors (this does not mean that there are absolutely no jokes permitted, but insert my above screen accuracy comment) - and since we now don't know when our specific audition night is, i would hope people would be respectful of their fellow cast mates and really put forth a great effort so as to showcase everyone's talents.

one other think i think needs to happen is for people to really think about their characters, and think of their character traits - each week we really make our characters our own, we live them and embody them and there is no way for each casts' performance, nor each actors' performance to carry the same feelings and traits - if our cast really gets into character and interjects their own take of what's going on on the screen i think that will really spice things up - Magenta doesn't have that many lines, but if you were to watch my performance of the character you will see that I hardly ever am not doing someting whether it be physically or facially to try and seduce the audience - i would hope that our audience pays attention to all the characters and not those just in the spot light - i think we should be constantly searching for what our character would be doing at any point in time and using that to really make an interesting performance

i might have more, but i'm at work and don't have the capacity to really fully develop my thoughts ... but food for thought ..

[jrising.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said. But a lack of concrete solutions is all the more reason to rile things up. There will always be naysayers and nostalgia, but an undercurrent of discontent needs to be aired or it becomes a constituent part of the environment and weakens us as a cast.

[d-day.livejournal.com]

That is a good point. It's funny, when I was first on stage it bothered me that Alex didn't give me enough notes. Some people like feedback, some don't, I guess.

I'll ponder on this

[mals13.livejournal.com]

I seem to recall the directors mentioning that it wasn't just screen accuracy that they were being picky with. they also wanted us to make ourselves the character. I watch people copy what's going on, on screen, but I also get bored with that, because it really is just a copy. It's not exactly acting. Make that character yours. Love it, know it and be it. If you miss a blink here, or a spin there, it's not a big deal as long as you're in character on stage. The audience *can't* be looking at both the actors and the screen at the same time, so if it's not precisely screen accurate, it shouldn't be a big deal as long as you're in character and interesting to watch.

I think what the directors said about making the character yours was very important, but I honestly don't think that comment has been reflected in what's being asked of us nowadays.

[mals13.livejournal.com]

"i think that during auditions, everyone should try to be as accurate as possible so as not to mess up the other actors"

yeah, honestly, i feel like people forgot that the show two weeks ago was an audition show and there was a lot of horsing around. Personally, I got distracted a couple of times, and while my timing was still on, i was pissed at myself for letting that happen while I was worried that I was being watched closely.

"Magenta doesn't have that many lines, but if you were to watch my performance of the character you will see that I hardly ever am not doing someting whether it be physically or facially to try and seduce the audience - i would hope that our audience pays attention to all the characters and not those just in the spot light - i think we should be constantly searching for what our character would be doing at any point in time and using that to really make an interesting performance"

Yeah, i completely agree with you. I feel like I am always in character even if I'm off screen/out of spotlight, but since the light is on others, people eyes go that way. I wonder if these little off screen/in character moments are ever noticed by the people who need to make decisions. (refer to my other response to twink)

[mals13.livejournal.com]

I also think that the audience loses interest when they look forward to preshow timewarp and it's just something that nobody recognizes and so they lose momentum. Preshows are meant to get the audience riled up and excited for a great show, but when they can't even scream call backs cuz they just don't fit, or they don't really know the moves anymore because the timing of the song is off, then that brings down the energy and it's all up to whomever is doing monologue to really get them going again, and that's not an easy task at all.

[jdub0014.livejournal.com]

It's so tough to disentangle real harmful effects from nostalgia. So, tell me: do you agree?

Yes.

And on a separate note, personally I have always felt encouraged by Gary, Diana, Alex, etc. to have fun with my character. Granted I play the probably the goofiest character in the movie, but I find all the "higher-ups" very approachable and useful.

I love FBC and what it has become. There has been a real surge of younger generation newer cast and crew members over the past few years, and I wonder if that's what's causing some of the disappointment and unhappiness for other cast members. If that's the case, it's something I can completely understand because I too am skeptical of and territorial around new cast members (even though I've only been there for a year and a half) and I could see myself feeling an element of longing for "the good old days."

I feel like I'm living my "good old days" at FBC right now, so I'm just trying to enjoy it. And I really hope that I can be like Alex, Ruthie, Diana, Jon, etc. and stick around through inevitable changes over the years and remain happy with FBC, more or less.

So there's my input.

[smurf24.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll just stick it on the end. I don't think the problem is with professionalism or screen accuracy or the directors. I think the problem is the cliquiness (sp?). I love Rocky. I love being head of costumes. My crew rocks and I am proud to say that we almost never get complained about. I feel pretty comfortable in my little niche at Rocky. That said, I feel very uncomfortable with a bunch of people who are at Rocky. But I ignore them because they are not the essence of Rocky. I think what has changed the most since I've joined is that people used to post plans on the list or on LJ and invite everyone. Now, I keep hearing about things after the fact and feeling less included. Which is fine, but I know that for me personally, it is making me want to take more nights off and find other ways to spend some of my Saturdays.

I used to be so excited to go to Rocky every week. I used to go to every party. But then, the dynamic changed and I felt disconnected from the majority of the people at Rocky. Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of people I love at Rocky, but sometimes the cliquiness just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[asavitzk.livejournal.com]

Wow, so much to say but I guess it can easily be summed up as "and thus the circle continues."

There are always discussions about the cast "in general" and they are usually about how things have changed for the worse. I remember these conversations back in 1994 when I joined and people were talking about how great things used to be. Am I saying this because I don't think people should care? Of course not, I'm just trying to give a bit of perspective.

Has the audience shrunk? A bit, yes. But honestly it's been happening everywhere around the country as the DVD/Video/TV-Showings have drawn people out of our seats. That trend will continue but we've got a good core of regulars plus a regular rotation of virgins and as long as we don't start to outright suck, that will continue as well. All I worry about is making sure we get enough people that management will still want to show it.

Screen accuracy/professionalism is the main thing that sets us apart from other area casts. Notice I did not say that other casts suck and we're the best. We're not. But we're the best at *our style* of Rocky and that style is outright professionalism. We have the best props, costumes, lights, and yes, screen accuracy. If you're screen accurate and then change something to be funny, then it's funny. If you're just fucking around and change something to be funny, nobody will notice anything other than the fact that you've been fucking around.

I like Twinkie's A/B accuracy ideas but I feel it necessary to note that the full accuracy is what we at FBC should strive for - that's our "thing". True, most won't notice if Brad uses the proper hand to put into his pocket at just the right time, but that guy playing Brad will know and will (or should) feel a sense of pride when he gets it just right. Plus, who's to say who in the audience won't be looking past him at the screen at just that moment and think "hey, he didn't move his hand right". I doubt he'd think "hey, he moved his hand just right" because you tend not to notice perfection unless you're looking for it, but imperfection usually jumps out at you.

Do I think Gary is a problem? Sometimes. And sometimes I think I'm a problem and sometimes I think Jon is a problem and sometimes I think JD is a problem and sometimes I think a techie who joined 2 weeks ago is a problem. Everyone has their moments where they cause problems and everyone has their moments when they contribute greatness. No one person is responsible for all the problems though it does fall on a few shoulders to minimize those problems - mainly my shoulders. And as I've said countless times before, if people don't come to me with problems and hopefully answers, nothing can be done about it. Talk all you want at a party but unless I'm there and can be engaged in the conversation, or at least be told the details later on, how much good can really come out of it other than validating the participants' "oh woe is me" attitude?

Getting back to the over-professionalism and having no fun - I really do have to disagree (again). First of all, though they are rare, we do have special nights every once in a while (and if we did them more often they wouldn't be special). I think people had fun during the evil bearded rocky night - I know I did and I know others did as well because they told me. I also know we can have fun being professionals because that's what we do every time we do an outside show. We wouldn't get hired back to so many places if we weren't professionals there yet at the same time we have alot of fun (both during and after the shows).

A professional, screen-accurate show is fun. Trust me.

I wonder how many will email or post anonymously to Jimmy yet won't do that for me.

[asavitzk.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, and I'm on the fence about the different preshow TW every month. Someone convince me.

[mals13.livejournal.com]

I can say that since I don't get to perform the preshow timewarp that often, it kills me to not know what to expect when it comes down to showtime. I feel awkward not really knowing the rhythm of the song or if the chorus beats have changed, etc. And that's from the stage point of view.
Looking at it from the audience pov, I feel like they all just kind of look at each other, wondering what's going on, sit back down and watch us make fools of ourselves. They don't do callbacks and they barely participate. I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but it really does hurt the morale of the crowd, both on stage and off.
Honestly, I like the idea of variety, but I feel like we should be more selective of which songs we choose to play...one night it's the Beach Boys (most awkward song ever) and another night it's the Roxy version. I think the song should always be an upbeat version that we can keep the audience involved in.
Also, we should have ample warning the week before the new song is played, maybe send a message and a copy of the song to the list, so people who want to be "professional" can actually rehearse the new song and look like they know what they're doing the night they perform. We are a cast full of people who need constant reminders, so just assuming that they should know we have a new song coming up and to go and check the castonly site is maybe a little too much to expect all the time.